| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
UZnal
Guest
|
 Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: Sunday's image |
 |
|
A nice planar, to cheer you up...
A dual-CPU Netfinity 5000, Type 8659-31Y. 10/100 Ethernet, S3-Video and
UW-SCSI on board. The connector to the left of the inner CPU socket is for
the VRM for the second CPU. The connector at the junction, i.e. to the left
of the memory slots, is the wide SCSI, the big chip opposite it is a
PowerPC. 4 PCI, 1 ISA and 1 combined ISA/PCI slots.
www.members.aon.at/mcabase/pub/share/NF5000-8659-31Y-Planar-19.jpg
www.members.aon.at/mcabase/pub/share/NF5000-8659-31Y-Planar-21.jpg
This is my spare planar, I run an identical one with a single P2/450 CPU (I
have no VRM though I have two identical P2/450), 1GB RAM, Matrox Millenium
video, 3Com PCI XL, PCI ServeRAID-3L Clarinette with two 3 disk arrays (W2K
resp. NT4/Warp Server 3/ Warp 4/ DOS), and an Archive UW tape drive through
the onboard SCSI. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Robert E. Watts
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Sunday's image |
|
|
Hi UZ !
Got something "similar".
http://home.fuse.net/bobwatts/ibm_netfinity_5600_8664.htm
That computer has since been upgraded to two P3 933MHz CPU's. It's
surprising how fast the thing is. One hell of an impressive machine. And you
better decide where you want it, it's not easy to move around.
I also have a xSeries 230 with a pair of 1GHz PIII's in it. Machine looks
about the same as the one in the link above. Haven't gotten an OS in that
one yet. It's giving me fits.
bobwatts
--
boBWatts®©
EartH
Watts Carburetion Service
Whizzbang Computers
Official collector of: transfat asian plastic junk trinkets !
"UZnal" <unalz-at-mail333-dot-com> wrote in message
news:4879fbf3$0$18812$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at...
| Quote: |
A nice planar, to cheer you up...
A dual-CPU Netfinity 5000, Type 8659-31Y. 10/100 Ethernet, S3-Video and
UW-SCSI on board. The connector to the left of the inner CPU socket is for
the VRM for the second CPU. The connector at the junction, i.e. to the
left
of the memory slots, is the wide SCSI, the big chip opposite it is a
PowerPC. 4 PCI, 1 ISA and 1 combined ISA/PCI slots.
www.members.aon.at/mcabase/pub/share/NF5000-8659-31Y-Planar-19.jpg
www.members.aon.at/mcabase/pub/share/NF5000-8659-31Y-Planar-21.jpg
This is my spare planar, I run an identical one with a single P2/450 CPU
(I
have no VRM though I have two identical P2/450), 1GB RAM, Matrox Millenium
video, 3Com PCI XL, PCI ServeRAID-3L Clarinette with two 3 disk arrays
(W2K
resp. NT4/Warp Server 3/ Warp 4/ DOS), and an Archive UW tape drive
through
the onboard SCSI.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Jim Shorney
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Sunday's image |
|
|
Robert E. Watts wrote:
| Quote: |
Got something "similar".
|
It figures that you would roll out the "planet killer". Showoff....
I missed the last University auction here due to another commitment -
they had some sort of Netfinity box listed on the bill. The dealers from
outstate rural areas tend to go nuts over that stuff, though. I guess
REAL computers are harder to get out in the boonies.
Nice pics, Bob and UZ.
-Jim
----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
UZnal
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:16 am Post subject: Re: Sunday's image |
|
|
Hi Bob,
What a marvellous transfat trinket, wonderful, what can I say... Your
computer is bigger than mine and your pictures are better than mine. There
is only a year between the two (1999 vs. 2000), but your specs are
definitely better. I just checked the PSREF and got an idea how nicely a
feathered bird you have in your cage. I can take a few more pictures to give
a better idea how modest my machine is, but then it is lighter to move
around ...;)
The front, behind the cover, looks about the same, but only 5 disks
vertically arranged.
| Quote: |
That computer has since been upgraded to two P3 933MHz CPU's. It's
surprising how fast the thing is. One hell of an impressive machine. And
you
better decide where you want it, it's not easy to move around.
|
At 133 MHz the max is 933 MHz, so PSREF. Mine lacks the 133 MHz option, only
up to P3/550 MHz, but as you rightly point out, these are indeed very fast
machines, thanks to the Reliance chipset not-designed-by-IBM. I run a 3-disk
RAID-0 array, it adds up to the speed.
Note that I managed to install OS/2 Warp 3 and Warp 4 on mine, although OS/2
is officially is not supported. One needs the OS/2 SMP install diskettes to
start the installation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
UZnal
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Sunday's image |
|
|
| Quote: |
I missed the last University auction here due to another commitment -
they had some sort of Netfinity box listed on the bill. The dealers from
outstate rural areas tend to go nuts over that stuff, though. I guess
REAL computers are harder to get out in the boonies.
|
I got mine incidentally, that big organization I once dealt with were
replacing their servers and thinking of giving them to schools. Armed with a
weighty name, I made a phone call and got one little used delivered to home
(normally, only the delivery would have cost more than I paid for it). Then
I decided to get a second one for the parts but wasn't that lucky this time,
the case was in a quite bad shape. I kept only the parts.
I would definitely recommend a Netfinity of a similar class, the machines
are very fast, not pretentious at all and both NT4 and W2K, for what I have
seen, run as they have never done before. As for the fan noise, I unplugged
the second fan, since I rarely use the machine for more than a few hours. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Robert E. Watts
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:14 am Post subject: Re: Sunday's image |
|
|
Hi UZ !
"UZnal" <unalz-at-mail333-dot-com> wrote in message
news:487a58c4$0$23018$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at...
| Quote: |
Hi Bob,
Got something "similar".
http://home.fuse.net/bobwatts/ibm_netfinity_5600_8664.htm
What a marvellous transfat trinket, wonderful, what can I say... Your
computer is bigger than mine and your pictures are better than mine. There
is only a year between the two (1999 vs. 2000), but your specs are
definitely better. I just checked the PSREF and got an idea how nicely a
feathered bird you have in your cage. I can take a few more pictures to
give
a better idea how modest my machine is, but then it is lighter to move
around ...;)
|
Well, er, ... actually, it wasn't my intention to mention my machine because
it's *better*, that wasn't my point.  Doesn't matter what IBM Server
we have, they are all pretty neato. ( I still hope to have a Server 704
someday.... for no good reason. Or some other "double wide unit. )
I guess I was just mentioning mine 'cause I think we all have a serious
affection for these IBM Server machines, and I was merely offering some pics
of mine in case someone was interested. You can only glean so much info from
the drawings that IBM ( or Lenovo ) lists on the webpages. Detailed pictures
tell the story so much better.
I remember the first time I opened up an IBM Model 80 back in about 1996 or
7. It was awesome.
Another cool thing is I got that for $75. I wish I had known that the
dealership was throwing them away, before someone got the other two. The
only reason they didn't wind up in the dumpster was because no one wanted to
lift them into the thing.
| Quote: |
The front, behind the cover, looks about the same, but only 5 disks
vertically arranged.
That computer has since been upgraded to two P3 933MHz CPU's. It's
surprising how fast the thing is. One hell of an impressive machine. And
you
better decide where you want it, it's not easy to move around.
At 133 MHz the max is 933 MHz, so PSREF. Mine lacks the 133 MHz option,
only
up to P3/550 MHz, but as you rightly point out, these are indeed very fast
machines, thanks to the Reliance chipset not-designed-by-IBM. I run a
3-disk
RAID-0 array, it adds up to the speed.
Note that I managed to install OS/2 Warp 3 and Warp 4 on mine, although
OS/2
is officially is not supported. One needs the OS/2 SMP install diskettes
to
start the installation.
|
I have installed Windows 2000 Professional on that machine, and if I
remember correctly, I think I set up RAID5. It honestly performs like a P4
computer, which frankly surprised. I had it connected to the internet, and
it blazes.
The xSeries 230 that I have ( 8658-61Y ) is another generation newer than
the Netfinity 5600. Motherboard seem to be less congested, more chipset
consolidation. It has 2 P III 1GHz CPU's, and has been upgraded to 1G of ram
( at least, I think ). It also has been upgraded to some 18 and 36 gig
drives. But so far I have been unable to get an OS installed. Hell, for that
matter, I have been unable to get the damn drives going at all. Winter
project.
Long Live IBM Stuff. ( as if we had any choice.. :-)
bobwatts
--
boBWatts®©
EartH
Watts Carburetion Service
Whizzbang Computers
Official collector of: transfat asian plastic junk trinkets ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
UZnal
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Sunday's image |
|
|
Hi Bob,
| Quote: |
Well, er, ... actually, it wasn't my intention to mention my machine
because
it's *better*, that wasn't my point.
|
I got your point right, I was actually glad to see it in detail and it
deserves every praise. No need to have other thoughts about it.
| Quote: |
Detailed pictures tell the story so much better.
|
Indeed, combine that with the specs from PSREF and you complement the
picture.
Something which I noticed: the SCSI drives are labelled to have been set to
different device IDs. Is this actually the case or is it only the label? If
this is the case, why is this needed in a backplane/array arrangement?
| Quote: |
The xSeries 230 that I have ( 8658-61Y ) is another generation newer than
the Netfinity 5600.
|
According to PSREF, the 8658 series are Netfinity 5100, although I can see
only up to 8658-51Y there. I suppose, the differences to 61Y are marginal.
The main differences between the three Netfinity series (5000, 5100 and
5600) are (1) CPU and chipset, (2) max RAM and (3) SCSI. Regarding SCSI,
here are the specs:
5000 (8659-xxx, my machine):
Adaptec AHA-7895 / dual channel Wide UltraSCSI controller / on planar / PCI
2.1 / two channels (one internal/one ext)
SCSI Channel A: 16-bit 68-pin cable from controller to backplane / cable has
another drop for device in open 5.25" bay
SCSI Channel B: 16-bit 68-pin cable to external SCSI port
Supports PCI ServeRAID adapters
5600 (8664-xxx, the one you posted):
Adaptec AHA-7897 / dual channel Wide Ultra2 SCSI controller (LVD 80MB/sec) /
on planar / 64-bit PCI / two channels (one internal/one external) / supports
IBM ServeRAID adapters (no hardware RAID standard)
SCSI Channel A: 16-bit 68-pin LVD cable from controller to backplane
SCSI Channel B: 16-bit 68-pin interface (hardwired) to external SCSI port
(.8mm VHDCI connector)
Includes a terminated 2-drop 16-bit Ultra SCSI non-LVD cable for optional
SCSI devices in open 5.25" bays
5100 (8658-xxx):
* Adaptec AHA-7899 / dual channel Wide Ultra160 SCSI controller (LVD
160MB/sec) / Ultra 160/m / on planar / 64-bit PCI / supports IBM ServeRAID
adapters (no hardware RAID standard)
* Two internal 16-bit channels / both internal (no external)
SCSI Channel A: 16-bit 68-pin LVD cable from controller to backplane
SCSI Channel B: 16-bit 68-pin interface (not used)
| Quote: |
Motherboard seem to be less congested, more chipset
consolidation. It has 2 P III 1GHz CPU's, and has been upgraded to 1G of
ram
( at least, I think ). It also has been upgraded to some 18 and 36 gig
drives. But so far I have been unable to get an OS installed. Hell, for
that
matter, I have been unable to get the damn drives going at all. Winter
project.
|
Do you use a ServeRAID adapter or the planar SCSI? I have a ServeRAID
adapter in my machine, the planar Adaptec SCSI drives currently only the
tape drive which I have not used it so far. With this setup the planar SCSI
is actually less important. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Kevin Bowling
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Sunday's image |
|
|
UZnal wrote:
| Quote: |
A nice planar, to cheer you up...
A dual-CPU Netfinity 5000, Type 8659-31Y. 10/100 Ethernet, S3-Video and
UW-SCSI on board. The connector to the left of the inner CPU socket is for
the VRM for the second CPU. The connector at the junction, i.e. to the left
of the memory slots, is the wide SCSI, the big chip opposite it is a
PowerPC. 4 PCI, 1 ISA and 1 combined ISA/PCI slots.
www.members.aon.at/mcabase/pub/share/NF5000-8659-31Y-Planar-19.jpg
www.members.aon.at/mcabase/pub/share/NF5000-8659-31Y-Planar-21.jpg
This is my spare planar, I run an identical one with a single P2/450 CPU (I
have no VRM though I have two identical P2/450), 1GB RAM, Matrox Millenium
video, 3Com PCI XL, PCI ServeRAID-3L Clarinette with two 3 disk arrays (W2K
resp. NT4/Warp Server 3/ Warp 4/ DOS), and an Archive UW tape drive through
the onboard SCSI.
|
Nice scans! IBM pr0n .
http://www2.kev009.com:8081/pics/rack1.jpg
This is a fairly outdated view of my home server arangement. The
Netfinity 4000Rs (not even an IBM design) have been replaced by xSeries
330s. PIIIs seem to be the sweet spot in performance/power consumption.
Also in view, NetVista 2800 thin client and DLT autoloader.
At work I just set up 10 second hand x345s and a DS400 Fibre Channel
SAN. I had the opportunity to peek in some x346 and current IBM designs
at the recycler as well. IBM quality hasn't skipped a beat IMHO.
Regards,
Kevin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
Robert E. Watts
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Sunday's image |
|
|
Hi UZ !
"UZnal" <unalz-at-mail333-dot-com> wrote in message news:487b4266$0$2143
| Quote: |
Something which I noticed: the SCSI drives are labelled to have been set
to
different device IDs. Is this actually the case or is it only the label?
If
this is the case, why is this needed in a backplane/array arrangement?
|
Wow, good eyes ! I hadn't noticed.
I can't answer your question at this time.
I got that thing earlier this year, and have forgotten almost everything
about it.
The drives are connected to the ServeRAID adapter.
When I got the machine, it would not boot. Someone had probably thought that
they "wiped" it out, but I just rebuilt the array, and it booted up to a
Novell OS.
Since I'm not the kind of person who cares at all about other peoples data
( and it asked for a password of course. Unlike the movies, I have never had
an "I'm IN !" moment where the bad guy just walks up to any computer on TV,
makes a few keystrokes, and has complete access to CIA files ), I just wiped
it out, and loaded Win2000.
I am not an expert by any means when it comes to these machines, or RAID. It
took me a couple of minutes of fumbling around to get this up and going, and
frankly, I let Win2000 do most of the heavy lifting. About the only thing I
did was set up some partitions, and connect the machine to my network so I
could transfer files and connect to the internet. That is when I became
surprised at how fast it was with the original single CPU. I found a pair of
OE IBM 933's with VRM, and slapped 'em in, and was really impressed. Had to
update the BIOS, but even with an old BIOS that didn't properly recognize
the CPU's, it ran.
Very complex computer. :-)
| Quote: |
The xSeries 230 that I have ( 8658-61Y ) is another generation newer than
the Netfinity 5600.
According to PSREF, the 8658 series are Netfinity 5100, although I can see
only up to 8658-51Y there. I suppose, the differences to 61Y are marginal.
The main differences between the three Netfinity series (5000, 5100 and
5600) are (1) CPU and chipset, (2) max RAM and (3) SCSI. Regarding SCSI,
here are the specs:
5000 (8659-xxx, my machine):
Adaptec AHA-7895 / dual channel Wide UltraSCSI controller / on planar /
PCI
2.1 / two channels (one internal/one ext)
SCSI Channel A: 16-bit 68-pin cable from controller to backplane / cable
has
another drop for device in open 5.25" bay
SCSI Channel B: 16-bit 68-pin cable to external SCSI port
Supports PCI ServeRAID adapters
5600 (8664-xxx, the one you posted):
Adaptec AHA-7897 / dual channel Wide Ultra2 SCSI controller (LVD 80MB/sec)
/
on planar / 64-bit PCI / two channels (one internal/one external) /
supports
IBM ServeRAID adapters (no hardware RAID standard)
SCSI Channel A: 16-bit 68-pin LVD cable from controller to backplane
SCSI Channel B: 16-bit 68-pin interface (hardwired) to external SCSI port
(.8mm VHDCI connector)
Includes a terminated 2-drop 16-bit Ultra SCSI non-LVD cable for optional
SCSI devices in open 5.25" bays
5100 (8658-xxx):
* Adaptec AHA-7899 / dual channel Wide Ultra160 SCSI controller (LVD
160MB/sec) / Ultra 160/m / on planar / 64-bit PCI / supports IBM ServeRAID
adapters (no hardware RAID standard)
* Two internal 16-bit channels / both internal (no external)
SCSI Channel A: 16-bit 68-pin LVD cable from controller to backplane
SCSI Channel B: 16-bit 68-pin interface (not used)
Motherboard seem to be less congested, more chipset
consolidation. It has 2 P III 1GHz CPU's, and has been upgraded to 1G of
ram
( at least, I think ). It also has been upgraded to some 18 and 36 gig
drives. But so far I have been unable to get an OS installed. Hell, for
that
matter, I have been unable to get the damn drives going at all. Winter
project.
Do you use a ServeRAID adapter or the planar SCSI? I have a ServeRAID
adapter in my machine, the planar Adaptec SCSI drives currently only the
tape drive which I have not used it so far. With this setup the planar
SCSI
is actually less important.
|
Both computers are using the ServeRAID adapter. The xSeries 230 seems to
have a drive problem, which is preventing me from getting an OS loaded.
Again, I can't remember the specifics of the problem, but I did spend quite
a few hours trying to sort it out before giving up. That computer will be
worked on much later, or if I get time. I *do* know that a systems engineer
who makes hisliving maintaining similar computers sold me that machine, and
he couldn't get an OS loaded, so I probably have some work to do figuring it
out.
Frankly, I had considered using the onboard SCSI because this would be easy
for me to setup, and I really have no interest in a RAID array anyway.
( Or imagine this: slap an IDE HDD on the cable with the CD-ROM drive. No,
that would get me kicked out of the IBM Club. I was kidding, everyone
who dropped their pizza and Skittles calm down ! )
Sorry I couldn't offer more information. I'm a Clone Boy who likes to play
with Big IBM Toys when I can afford it.
bob |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
UZnal
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Sunday's image |
|
|
Hi Bob,
| Quote: |
Something which I noticed: the SCSI drives are labelled to have been set
to different device IDs.
I can't answer your question at this time.
I got that thing earlier this year, and have forgotten almost everything
about it.
The drives are connected to the ServeRAID adapter.
|
Two scenarios:
(1) The planar SCSI was initially connected to the backplane ("SCSI Channel
A: 16-bit 68-pin LVD cable from controller to backplane") and no ServeRAID
adapter was used.
(2) The ServeRAID adapter uses the planar SCSI, i.e. the ServeRAID is an
optional extension of the planar SCSI. I seem to remember such configs, but
I could be wrong, if not, the ServeRAID must be originating from the Adaptec
house.
| Quote: |
I am not an expert by any means when it comes to these machines, or RAID.
|
It is actually pretty simple. It takes comparatively more time to play with
the array configurator (I used the DOS configurator program from the FTP,
IIRC, it extracted to a bootable DOS floppy but there should be one (Java
app?) on a bootable CD).
| Quote: |
Both computers are using the ServeRAID adapter. The xSeries 230 seems to
have a drive problem, which is preventing me from getting an OS loaded.
|
Right now I do not recall exactly the steps but the DOS configurator will
find out any faulty drives. As a matter of fact, the drives can and should
be first initialized. The ServeRAID-3L adapter I use has a built-in
mini-configurator program which can be activated at boot time.
| Quote: |
( Or imagine this: slap an IDE HDD on the cable with the CD-ROM drive.
No,
that would get me kicked out of the IBM Club. I was kidding,
everyone
who dropped their pizza and Skittles calm down ! )
|
Oh, why not, a large capacity IDE would be a convenient storage expansion, a
DVD server or so. This option must be investigated, there is no further info
on the IDE interface capabilities. PSREF mentions it only in the CDROM
context. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
UZnal
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:40 am Post subject: Re: Sunday's image |
|
|
| Quote: |
The drives are connected to the ServeRAID adapter.
|
Bob, yours could be a ServeRAID-4H/M/L adapter:
http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/rep_ca/9/897/ENUS100-099/ENUS100-099.PDF
* Netfinity ServeRAID-4H Ultra160 SCSI Controller
Four channels — supports the most demanding high-end requirements
128 MB ECC battery-backed cache, 32 MB processor memory, and 1 MB L2 cache
266 MHz1 PowerPC 750™ processor with IBM exclusive copper technology
Removable/transferable cache — for high-availability environments
* Netfinity ServeRAID-4M Ultra160 SCSI Controller
Two channels — supports mid-range RAID storage requirements
64 MB ECC battery-backed cache
* Netfinity ServeRAID-4L Ultra160 SCSI Controller
Economical single-channel controller — supports entry requirements
16 MB ECC cache |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
UZnal
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:43 am Post subject: Re: Sunday's image |
|
|
| Quote: |
http://www2.kev009.com:8081/pics/rack1.jpg
This is a fairly outdated view of my home server arangement. The
Netfinity 4000Rs (not even an IBM design) have been replaced by xSeries
330s. PIIIs seem to be the sweet spot in performance/power consumption.
Also in view, NetVista 2800 thin client and DLT autoloader.
|
A very sweet rack to play with, Kevin, and I believe you really enjoy it. As
a bedtime reading I could recommend this redbook (see pages 240 - 255, there
are two blue handle (!) SSA adapters, the one really seems to be an
RS6K-MCA):
http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/Redbooks.nsf/RedbookAbstracts/sg242098.html?Open
Netfinity Server Disk Subsystems
This IBM Redbook is the definitive guide to IBM Netfinity disk subsystems
The storage subsystems covered in the book are those based on the ServeRAID
family of SCSI-based RAID controllers, Netfinity Fibre Channel products,
and serial storage architecture (SSA) products. All currently available
Netfinity products are discussed. Comparisons between the technologies
are made, to provide you with guidance when selecting a storage subsystem
for your applications.
With the rapid increase in interest in storage area network (SAN) approaches
to data storage, and a growing number of Netfinity SAN products, we have
included a new section to address this topic in this edition. After an
introduction to SAN concepts, we discuss current Netfinity SAN products
and solutions, and outline the direction we expect Netfinity SANs to
take in the future.
| Quote: |
IBM quality hasn't skipped a beat IMHO.
|
True, they may not know how to make better desktops but don't tell them how
to make better servers....;) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
Ads |
Advertising
Sponsor
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
132 Attacks blocked
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
